Nocturne Does anyone else feel bad about how you treat demons?

Discussion in 'Shin Megami Tensei Series' started by KroganCharr, Feb 9, 2015.

Do you feel bad about how you treat your demons in Nocturne?

  1. Yes, but it doesn't affect how I play the game.

    4 vote(s)
  2. Yes, and that sometimes affects how I play the game.

    3 vote(s)
  3. No, because there is no reason to feel compassion for demons.

    2 vote(s)
  4. No, but there are some demons that I treat better because I like them.

    4 vote(s)
  5. No, because I don't care about roleplaying.

    0 vote(s)
  6. I'm not sure.

    0 vote(s)
  7. Krogan, stop worrying about pixels!

    3 vote(s)
  1. KroganCharr

    KroganCharr Member

    One thing first, please avoid spoilers (unless you tag them of course). I'm still playing this game for the first time right now. I'm currently at the obelisk.

    While playing Nocturne, I have a really hard time considering myself "the good guy". I try to be good if I get the chance but I mostly act practically. That includes pretending to be friendly to demons only to basically enslave them. It also includes sacrificial fusion and I admit I was a bit shocked about how straightforward the game is about this one's nature. To make matters worse, due to the nature of sacrificial fusion the benefit is greater with experienced demons, meaning that sacrificies often tend to be loyal companions. I realize that many of those demons would do the same or worse in my shoes, but does that really justify my "quest for power"? I contract them, keep them with me as long as they are useful, and as soon as I don't feel like I need them anymore I fuse them away or outright murder them (sacrificial fusion). It doesn't seem right.

    The story itself reflects little of this so far, only the voice in the labyrinth made me question whether I am not simply making myself a pawn of you-know-who. However, there are some hints that my actions are meant to be taken seriously. Recently, a succubus asked me something like "I can't bear to watch demon fusion. How about you?" with anwers "I like to watch." or "I always close my eyes when it happens." I told her I liked to watch, she complimented me on my strengths and gave me a gift.

    Am I just thinking too much about this, or do you also sometimes question yourself while playing Nocturne?
    Cemmos likes this.
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  3. Cemmos

    Cemmos Administrator Team Member

    It's one of the things I really enjoy. I do feel bad, but at the same time, it's so... awesome? I suppose.

    I don't think you're thinking too much about it, it's definitely something that should be given some thought. It's an aspect of the game that helps make it so grim and your actions feel foreboding.
  4. KroganCharr

    KroganCharr Member

    I might add that I felt terrible when I
    met Decarabia after killing Forneus. I still remember Elizabeth's tale of Decarabia waiting for a friend who will never come... and those two also cast "Best Friends" together. It's very simple and kind of generic but I almost cried.
  5. lol, yeah due to playing p3 before nocturne i had them in my mind too, however i straightforward told him that i killed him >:D

    well about fusion, the 2 demons don´t die they form a new life form, like a bacteria backwards. sacrificing demons will kill them, however you can always resurrect them by consulting the compendium, which is actual revival as you can summon all bosses and even futmimi and sakahagi (they all might be a little brainwashed so they follow you)

    so all in all i don´t feel bad because i can resurrect them, of course i´m keeping my strongest/favorite ones always in my stock
  6. ArizonaPasha

    ArizonaPasha Member

    I do feel a little guilty when I spend battle after hard fought battle raising a certain demon, I have to junk them for a better one almost immediately after they start lagging. (Poor Inugami, he was a loyal doggy. Crazy and loud, but loyal.)
  7. KroganCharr

    KroganCharr Member

    Yeah, the game's difficulty doesn't exactly encourage sticking to a demon simply because you like it. And the longer you do that, the more tempting it becomes to sacrifice it in order to support something stronger... maybe if I replay the game on normal sometime it won't be as tempting to do everything for more power. I want to beat it on hard first, though.
  8. Carryduffp

    Carryduffp Moderator Team Member

    Where's the option for 'no - you don't treat demons badly in Nocturne'? The demons aren't kept as slaves, they willing join you, it's not like you are capturing them and enslaving them. They want to join you and often employ your services. As seen through Pixie, the demon's spirit continues to live through demon fusing and (as someone corrected me) the demons spirit is still present in the new demon, even if it was a part of sacrificial fusion.

    Edit: That was an interesting find with Decarabia though - I had completely forgotten that being said in Persona 3.
  9. KroganCharr

    KroganCharr Member

    Most demons may join you willingly, except for the ones who offer their services in return for their lives being spared. However, it still seems like a master-slave-relationship, either for free or for a few almost worthless items they will follow you as long as you please. Maybe that's what they want? Maybe demons are just like that and they are happy in my party? I don't know.

    The pixie thing is something I didn't know about when I made this thread, I only had the succubus who asked me if I could even bear to watch demon fusion, and I think I remember some kid-like demon asking me if demon fusion hurts, I said no and it got angry and accused me of lying. I still know very little about this process. Does this imply that, for example, that Atavaka that turned into uber pixie contains the "essence" (not sure what word to use here) of every single demon that was involved in fusing it? If so, when I summon a demon from the compendium after fusing the original one away, does that mean that a new demon is born? (the old one continues to exist in the fusion result, after all). Anyway, the overall picture of demon fusion that I get is that it is possibly painful and unpleasant for the demons involved, but not lethal. It's all rather easy to explain with Personas that don't physically exist anyway until they are called, but demons seem to be actual creatures which makes it a little more confusing.

    I actually returned to Decarabia later with Forneus in my party, but there was no specific response (I guess only the fiends are actually being resurrected and I brought a different Forneus). Decarabia only asked me if I knew where Forneus was, I answered honestly and it didn't believe me. I wonder if this guy doesn't know who I am (demifiend should have been pretty famous by that time) or if it is in denial.
  10. Aladar

    Aladar Member

    The demon-man relationship is actually not supposed to be the way you use it. According to an agreement between humans and demons, humans can't "use" demons as you do in the games. So yeah, it's kinda shady.
  11. sorrowscall

    sorrowscall Member

    Honestly, I can't say I feel bad for how I treat them. I mean yeah, I get really into a game at times, but in the end, it's just a game. It's pretty similar to collecting Pokemon or even some of the Digimon games and I don't feel bad about collecting monsters and using them how I see fit in a completely virtual world that has nothing to do with nor should be treated the same as reality by my own person.